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  1. #61
    Instead of using the morph brush. Have you tried the clothroom for the original fit?

  2. #62
    Hi tashar59, I have not, I think I should too. Get in there and learn the cloth room better. I cannot think of any reason it would not work though. As long as you get the clothing to fit the figure it should work fine.

    I need to make a shirt for Brad so I will try fitting the shirt in the cloth room this time.

  3. #63
    I've actually been using this method for some time in Poser Pro 2012. Though as suggested by Tashar, I've always used the clothroom method to get the clothing shaped to the new figure instead of the morph brush.
    Nobody beats Pixlogic when it comes to free software upgrades! Zbrush 4R6 and still free! I started with Zbrush 1.5!

  4. #64
    I foresee a bright future for the clothroom... going to be close to top on the SM list of things to fine-turn, I should think, for the next version! Hope springs eternal...

  5. #65

    Wink If Wishes Were Fishes....

    Quote Originally Posted by robynsveil View Post
    I foresee a bright future for the clothroom... going to be close to top on the SM list of things to fine-turn, I should think, for the next version! Hope springs eternal...
    If they wanted to be really nice they could sneak it into a service pack.
    Nobody beats Pixlogic when it comes to free software upgrades! Zbrush 4R6 and still free! I started with Zbrush 1.5!

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by mizrael View Post
    If they wanted to be really nice they could sneak it into a service pack.
    Well, according to posts I've seen by people who've played in it in this version, claims have been made that certain bugs have been fixed. Which is already a lot (not that I've encountered those issues myself). To be quite honest, I feel that there is still so much I haven't explored in this incredible room as it is in its current form, I'm not in any frame of mind to make demands for big changes, since I really haven't hit any walls in terms of the capabilities of this room yet. Give me a few years and a new version and maybe I'll be ready for something I'm not aware I need yet. Hopefully by the time SM is ready to start looking at the room in all seriousness, the brighter cloth-minded developers will have already offered suggestions to SM. IOW: don't wait for me to come up with ideas: I'm slow as they come.
    Having heaps of fun, though!

  7. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by esha View Post
    I think weight map rigging is a bit easier than the traditional system with the influence spheres.
    @esha
    Thanks for mentioning that.. I was having such problems with the old way it became more frustrating than I personally feel this hobby should be for me. Do you feel you could comfortably in time weight map/rig (not sure of term) some of your beautiful designs after working with Pro2012 for awhile? I would love the old fashioned children's clothes but I still have dynamic cloth phobia.

    @phantom3d
    I have looked at this demo a couple of times you really has a knack for explaining something I thought was complicated and making me think I could do this. But I have wondered if it is because you are sooo good at all this that it looks easier to understand or is it really truly easier?

    For me it boils down to possibly getting only one program, 2012, instead of P9 and Daz4Adv. I have been browsing these forums, reading, trying to decide the best course for me. There is a wealth of knowledge from the ambassadors in these forums - I hope this does not get lost. Perhaps in the future information can be separated from some of the nonsensical postings, some of the threads I gave up on.

    Thank you both for helping and an extra thanks to the phantom3d for making me think I may not be totally brain dead yet.

    PS @phantom3d
    I have not seen this Brad of yours phantom3d is it available somewhere? Would you consider releasing a weight mapped version after the release in Sept? If all of this is obvious, I apologize, I actually do sometimes live under a rock and miss chucks of life. ;-)

  8. #68
    Hi lillwolf,

    It is very easy to do. I have not done this before myself an that was a first try that I took pictures of. So yes it is EASY. I read the relevant parts of the manual and jumped in and you see the results.

    And if you have any trouble with anything I will be here to help. Thats a promise.

    Yes I am going to release Brad after the release of Poser this sept. He will be free to anyone. He does not have much yet as far as clothes and things but I will make things for him as I can.

  9. #69
    Hi Mike - I guess the reason LillWolf and I (and probably a few others!) might wonder is because you are the rigging expert, no question about it. When i see how incredibly well Antonia bends, I can't but admire your handiwork. At this juncture, I'm beginning to see a real importance in understanding rigging (as in: doing a bit of our own). Would you say that old-fashioned rigging is significantly more difficult? (dumb question: probably is, but why?) And would understanding rigging help us get a better feel for weight-mapping?

    I've been quite ... possessed? ... by the dynamic cloth bug. Starting to develop my own clothing now, with the intent of probably doing at least some of it hybrid. So, i think getting a grip on rigging is going to become an essential skill. Anything can be learned, I guess: if BB can teach me mat room and Python (for matmatic) then I suppose rigging shouldn't be too daunting (I'm deluding myself, please support that... )

  10. #70
    Rigging is where to place a joint to get natural human looking movement. Weight mapping (and the sphere system befor it) deals with how the flesh deforms around the bone during movement.

    If you are creating a figure or wish to rerigg a figure then yes an understanding of rigging would be good. I can tell you that the best resource for learning rigging is going to be a good anatomy book. Most of it is just knowing where a joint should be. The set up room becomes much easier to use and understand after messing around in there and trying everything. I know it seems daunting at first but once you get the idea of what each tool does it is not so scary anymore.

    What makes weight mapping so much easier and faster than the old sphere and capsule method? Well I am not the best with words much better with pictures But I will try to explain, later I will come back with some pictures to do a better job.

    It is all about being able to control how each vertex moves with the bone. With the old sphere and capsule method you could only controle whatever vertex fell within the shape of the sphere. The shape and placement of the sphere would control which vetices would move and how much. This made it extremely difficult to get any precise control. The limbs of the human body simply do not fit the shape of a sphere. So I would spend weeks and months on a single joint (in the more difficult joints) to get everything set to get reasonably human looking bend. But I would have to employ tricks and creative joint placement to get there.

    Weight mapping does not depend on the pre ordained shape of a sphere. With weight mapping you paint directly on the flesh of the figure in any shape or intensity you wish and can control the way that flesh deforms with the bend with great precision. Plus in Poser it is visual, you can see in real time how the flesh (mesh) is responding to your painting. What used to sometimes take me months to perfect now takes an hour or so.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom3d View Post
    Hi lillwolf,

    And if you have any trouble with anything I will be here to help. Thats a promise.
    Thank you so much! robynsveil please continue and I will follow along tomorrow. Worn myself out for now. :-)

  12. #72
    Do you feel you could comfortably in time weight map/rig (not sure of
    term) some of your beautiful designs after working with Pro2012 for awhile? I
    would love the old fashioned children's clothes but I still have dynamic cloth
    phobia.
    I might re-rig some of my clothes, but it largely depends on which figures will be available as weight-mapped editions.
    I will continue to produce dynamic clothes, though, because weight-mapping is not a replacement for cloth draping. These are two different methods, and each has its pros and cons.
    - I am, therefore I eat -

    My products at RDNA

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by esha View Post
    These are two different methods, and each has its pros and cons.
    Esha thank you for your comeback and your time. I do realize they are two different methods and I envy those that have such a knack with either.

    I have never gotten anything I have made to drape properly, or conform properly. I am sure a lot of it has to do with my lack of skills & understanding but I would like to be able to take my personal models to a finished point.

  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom3d View Post
    If you are creating a figure or wish to rerigg a figure then yes an understanding of rigging would be good. I can tell you that the best resource for learning rigging is going to be a good anatomy book. .
    Coolness! I don't remember anyone recommending an anatomy book but you are positively right! I have now pre-Ordered Pro and I am just waiting to hear from support on the matter of possibly not being here to download and the procedures involved. I couldn't order an extended download, which is what I wanted to do.

    Thanks again phantom for your help, between you and PhilC I am sold, will peek in and out of the forums when I can!

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom3d View Post
    I can tell you that the best resource for learning rigging is going to be a good anatomy book
    But with any type of learning some just grasp the basics, while some have that uncanny ability which makes them stick out of the masses; That's why I advocate (in case somebody didn't notice yet...) that people knowing what they're talking about should be the one who tackle the weight map transformation of older iconic Poserdom figures, and sell the result.
    I'm ready to pay for something I know I won't be able to do as well, no problem; I know my limitations.

    And here is an example of what I mean:


    Quote Originally Posted by esha View Post
    I might re-rig some of my clothes, but it largely depends on which figures will be available as weight-mapped editions.
    Clothing creators need a commonly accepted base to rally around; Something most people have because it's the best version out there. It worked for figures so far, chances are it will also work for weight-mapping them.

  16. #76
    Clothing creators need a commonly accepted base to rally around; Something most people have because it's the best version out there. It worked for figures so far, chances are it will also work for weight-mapping them.


    Now that is a statement I agree with- That is what I will spend for.

  17. #77
    I'm of the impression that we already have a fairly large range of figures that we could be working with. What I would love to see - and would probably be the target for all sorts of potentially lethal legal landmines - is an exercise/group class/workshop (never sure what to call this sort of thing) where a popular (or not so popular anymore) figure is re-rigged. Yes,: re-rigged! and then weight-mapped, subsequently. For example: Stephanie 3. Wouldn't Daz have a field-day with that one! So yeah, I can see potential problems with it, but my goodness, wouldn't be awesome to actually learn to rig a 3D figure so it behaves the way *you* want!!

    I would *so* be in that!

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by robynsveil View Post
    I'm of the impression that we already have a fairly large range of figures that we could be working with.
    We always had, from Poser 1 on. But we always want better-looking ones. It's just like real life...


    Quote Originally Posted by robynsveil View Post
    What I would love to see - and would probably be the target for all sorts of potentially lethal legal landmines - is an exercise/group class/workshop (never sure what to call this sort of thing) where a popular (or not so popular anymore) figure is re-rigged.
    Me too. Just to flex my rigging claws into the weight-mapping domain (I've already flexed them in the traditional domain, and it slapped me).
    When it comes to make a picture (more so a paid one) of a figure, I'd rather settle for the best rigger out there, the one which has an eye for human anatomy details, beyond the "boobs are below the face, seems realistic to me" level...
    So yes, I'm a fervent supporter of learning, but I know there are people who can do some things better than me (others not), and I'd rather rely on their expertise for those aspects. It's not laziness - after all, I relied on SM to code Poser, I didn't bother to program it myself...

  19. #79
    Oh, I'm not saying it would achieve unprecendented popularity status, this workshop, yrt. it would be just for us cobblers. I'm not much of an artist, but I do love to mess with this stuff.

  20. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by robynsveil View Post
    Oh, I'm not saying it would achieve unprecendented popularity status, this workshop, yrt. it would be just for us cobblers. I'm not much of an artist, but I do love to mess with this stuff.
    I understand, and agree. I just keep reminding people of the true priorities (Which are to have a set of up-to-date figures around which all Poser users can federate their efforts. Everything else is nice, but it won't make sure we're still here in August 2012 - at least not all of us, not enough to make it worth SM's while to pay people to work on Poser.).

    (Fighting for my hide, one could say (besides the fact I don't work for SM); The fact is I like my adversaries to think of "cornered rat", rather than "corned beef"... -evil smirk- )

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