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  1. #41
    I am thinking I may be able to use it on a lot of the nearly a terabyte of content I have from over the years.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyspark View Post
    One that comes instantly to mind is Miki 3 I hope this will work for her.
    I do believe there is going to be an updated weight mapped Miki 3 on the way. She is such a cutie and with the weight mapping ....Oh yaa. Yes I think this is going to revive many peoples runtimes.

    Batronix: I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean can you use different points on the same map or?

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom3d View Post
    I do believe there is going to be an updated weight mapped Miki 3 on the way. She is such a cutie and with the weight mapping ....Oh yaa. Yes I think this is going to revive many peoples runtimes.

    Batronix: I am not sure what you mean. Do you mean can you use different points on the same map or?
    I get that a lot . . .

    I should have said "at multiple points of rotation in the channel". For example, setting up a shin bend. at the extreme, where the calf and the back of the thigh contact, there will be bulging. So, I shape that with a weight map. If that's all I do then I would expect at the halfway point of the rotation, half of the bulge would be visible; a linear interpolation of vertex deltas. That's not natural. Can I rotate the shin until just before the calf and thigh make contact, remove the bulge, and still have everything behave correctly. If you graphed a given vertex's weight-map deltas it would not be linear in that case.

    Is that any more clear?
    "There is no secret ingredient "
    -- Kung Fu Panda


    "Reach for the sky!"

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by batronyx View Post
    I get that a lot . . .

    I should have said "at multiple points of rotation in the channel". For example, setting up a shin bend. at the extreme, where the calf and the back of the thigh contact, there will be bulging. So, I shape that with a weight map. If that's all I do then I would expect at the halfway point of the rotation, half of the bulge would be visible; a linear interpolation of vertex deltas. That's not natural. Can I rotate the shin until just before the calf and thigh make contact, remove the bulge, and still have everything behave correctly. If you graphed a given vertex's weight-map deltas it would not be linear in that case.

    Is that any more clear?
    Yes I get what you mean. I dont know, I will look into it.

  5. #45
    Can I rotate the shin until just before the calf and thigh make contact, remove the bulge, and still have everything behave correctly. If you graphed a given vertex's weight-map deltas it would not be linear in that case.
    I'm pretty sure the deformation is applied smoothly, and bones cannot do this, although you could still do it via JCM.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by pjz99 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the deformation is applied smoothly, and bones cannot do this, although you could still do it via JCM.
    Yes I could not find anything like a graph editor for the weight maps that would do that, so I am going with pjz99. But who knows what will come next, that would be a cool edition a graph editor to say when and how strong the maps are implemented.

  7. #47
    I don't guess I was looking for a graph editor, though that might be cool. I was just wondering if you make changes at different points in the rotation, do they, and previous edits at different points, stick? I think ultimately that would be multiple maps, which is what led to the question because you already have at least two: one for each extreme. I am curious as to how extensible that implementation is.

    As you say, pjz99, it is still possible with JCM's, and if created with the morphing tool, then a large part of the process isn't much different either.
    "There is no secret ingredient "
    -- Kung Fu Panda


    "Reach for the sky!"

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by pjz99 View Post
    I'm pretty sure the deformation is applied smoothly, and bones cannot do this, although you could still do it via JCM.
    My belief is that JCM and Deformers are still going to be an important part of final polish of a character's detailing. For example muscle and tendon tensioning will likely be best served with morphs driven by a rotation controlled Master Parameter, or to save file size, a Magnet Deformer driven by a rotation controlled Master Parameter.

  9. #49
    Well Batronyx does raise a pretty great point, in that if you could key the deformation to an editable curve, you could take bones to yet another level of function, but maybe that's more change in a single pass than you guys are comfortable introducing.

  10. #50
    I was thinking about that "weight mapping older figures" thing, and the more I think about it, the more I feel there needs to be some serious way to easily distribute rigging (meaning, without copyright issues).

    Imagine if we all managed to have the same weight mapped gen4 figures: Clothes creators could start selling clothes for them, or just update their old clothes to give them a new life. People could make new stuff for them.
    This would obviously require that everybody uses the same base rig; If everybody brews his own, we would face a tower of Babel effect, nothing would be compatible with what everybody else has, nobody could make and distribute anything new using this technology.

  11. #51
    This is true, but I do believe it will be easily possible to distribute the weight mapping, if not by cr2 then by pose injection. I have been trying to get ahold of cage on the pose injection possibilities but he seems to have taken a hiatus. No worries though it will be worked out. There are many very capable people who can figure out the needed code etc. in the Poser community.

    I do know that the Poser figures cr2 are distributable with no worries and other 3rd party figures as well. So whatever may come we are still in a fine position to use this great new tech.

  12. #52
    Actually, if Poser transfers existing weight maps to the clothing automatically, as I understand, then content creators need only to remember to create their stuff around figures that are NOT weight mapped. Then everybody's individual weight maps should still work. That being said, finding a way to legally transfer weight maps is still a good idea.
    "There is no secret ingredient "
    -- Kung Fu Panda


    "Reach for the sky!"

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyspark View Post
    I am thinking I may be able to use it on a lot of the nearly a terabyte of content I have from over the years.
    That's what I am thinking. I have some things I want to try to adapt.



    Those who think they made it fool proof...have underestimated the ingenuity of the fool.

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by lazyspark View Post
    I am thinking I may be able to use it on a lot of the nearly a terabyte of content I have from over the years.
    That's what I am thinking. I have some things I want to try to adapt.



    Those who think they made it fool proof...have underestimated the ingenuity of the fool.

  15. #55
    Can weight mapped clothes be worn by non-weight mapped figures?

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by esha View Post
    I think weight map rigging is a bit easier than the traditional system with the influence spheres.
    I second that esha. More accurate .
    "Death cannot stop true love; all it can do is delay it for a little while." The Princess Bride


    "I thought you want to be an engineer when you are older.-Why you choose now Astrophysik?"-
    "because engineer have to learn so much mathematik"! ---Zo Boyer, 7 year old

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by phantom3d View Post
    No worries though it will be worked out. There are many very capable people who can figure out the needed code etc. in the Poser community.
    This I know.
    But I also know there are many strong spirits here, and the problem would rather be to federate everyone around one, specific weight map conversion, else making content for those hacked figures will be impossible; And user-made content has always been the staple of the Poser universe...

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by batronyx View Post
    Actually, if Poser transfers existing weight maps to the clothing automatically, as I understand
    Well, it's not that automatic most of the time*). You'll need to adapt, tweak, potentially add specific morphs - In short, if we can avoid having as many different versions as there are users, everybody would feel better, users like content creators.


    *) You can test how that's supposed to works easily, even in older Posers: Take a mesh (like a piece of dynamic clothing), create the groups (body parts) needed, enter the Setup room, and in there, load from your library the V4 Foundation (or something similar). This tells Poser to transfer the rigging to the prop loaded, fitting bones to groups.
    So long so good, that's something you can do pretty fast; The problems will arise when you start bending the clothing. It will tear, there will be pokethrough, you will be required to tweak the base grouping/rigging to make something which really fits out of it (that's the ugly part of making clothing!).
    Some people can do that, but most can't, or just won't have the patience/skill for it.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by eclark1849 View Post
    Can weight mapped clothes be worn by non-weight mapped figures?
    Potentially yes, but most of the time, unless the clothing is really thick/large, you will get pokethrough as soon as you start posing.
    The rigging really needs to be adapted to the figure, this is why it is so important to have one universal figure rig.

    This problem never arose so far, since we used the figures as their creators made them; But here we have a new situation, where we users change the rigging themselves, making it personalized (and thus incompatible with anything anybody else has done).

  20. #60
    It is called the free market, There will be leading contenders arise and rather quickly I think.

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